The real democratic deficit...

The exchange yesterday between Paul Martin and Stephen Harper is revealing. How on earth can Martin claim he wants to fix the democratic deficit when he can't even an answer a question? Here's the testimony:

Hon. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the House has voted for a full public inquiry.

I want to return to the Prime Minister's evasive answers yesterday. Before the Gomery commission, the Prime Minister said that he had barely any relationship with Claude Boulay, anything beyond a casual “How do you do?” That was his testimony. However, another witness has testified that the Prime Minister discussed government business with Claude Boulay over lunch at the Liberal convention.

Did the Prime Minister have lunch with Claude Boulay on any occasion, yes or no?

Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my testimony is a matter of public knowledge. Any allegation that I interfered in any contract is a lie.

I will tell members what is not a lie, and that is what is now the Conservative position on health care. Last week it was Ralph Klein. Today it was Preston Manning and Mike Harris.

What is the Conservative agenda, which is no longer hidden? I will tell members. It is no federal role in health care. It is no Canada Health Act. It is no one saying no to the privatization of health care. I will fight the Conservatives tooth and nail and we will protect the Canada Health Act.

Hon. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, CPC): Mr. Speaker, we often accuse the Prime Minister of not being transparent, but that was about as transparent as one can be. I am going to ask the Prime Minister the same question again until he answers it.

Yesterday,when asked whether or not he had lunch with Claude Boulay, another sponsorship millionaire, the Prime Minister refused to answer.

I will put my question again. Did the Prime Minister have lunch with Claude Boulay at the Liberal convention, yes or no?

Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, again, the full testimony is there. However, let us talk about transparency. Let us talk about the Conservative hidden agenda on health care that the hon. member refuses to divulge.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

The Speaker: Order. It seems the invitation is being taken up rather enthusiastically. I know the Prime Minister said, “let us talk”. Perhaps we could use other words and carry on with the answer without invoking the need for everyone else to get into the discussion during question period. There are places to carry on those discussions outside, but we are doing it in here, and it is a one on one question at the moment. I invite all hon. members to remember that.

The Prime Minister now has the floor to answer this question.

Right Hon. Paul Martin: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has the responsibility to Canadians to give us his vision on health care.

The fact is the three most important pillars of his party, Ralph Klein, Mike Harris and Preston Manning, have now revealed what he is afraid to tell the Canadian people, and that is that he would gut the Canada Health Act, withdraw the federal government's role in health care, and privatize health care. We will not allow that to happen. We will defend Canada's health care system.

Hon. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, CPC): Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder the head of the Liberal Party had to write members saying “don't panic”.

I will read the testimony:

Mr. Finkelstein: Do you recall, though, any meeting or get-together of any significance beyond a casual, How do you do?

[The Prime Minister]: No, no.

Alain Renaud: I heard about it at the Convention of the Liberal Party, when the [Prime Minister] and Claude Boulay were together and Mrs. Deslauriers, and they were talking about Attractions Canada. They were talking a lot about it. It was difficult not to listen. I was beside a table, at the Convention, eating a sandwich, and it looked very friendly.

Did--

The Speaker: The right hon. Prime Minister.

Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to the hon. member that he read the full testimony and that he also read the comments of Judge Gomery when he passed a comment on what Mr. Renaud said.

Having said that, why is the hon. member refusing to address his hidden agenda on health care? Why is he refusing to stand here and deal with the issues raised by Preston Manning and by Mike Harris on his behalf? Canadians are entitled to know what the Conservative position is. Why did he send Mike Harris and Preston Manning out to do his bidding?

Hon. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, CPC): Mr. Speaker, if this were not so serious, I would say the Prime Minister is in danger of making himself a national joke.

It is very simple. The Prime Minister testified he had no real relationship of any significance with Claude Boulay. One last time, has he ever sat down and had lunch with Claude Boulay, yes or no?

Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, health care may be a joke to the Leader of the Opposition but it is no joke--

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

The Speaker: Order, please. The Leader of the Opposition has asked a question. The Prime Minister is attempting to answer and he is entitled to respond to the question that was asked. We will have some order. We are wasting a great deal of time. Some members will be frightfully disappointed at the end that they missed their questions and the answers.

The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor to answer the question.

Right Hon. Paul Martin: Mr. Speaker, only that leader thinks health care is a joke. Those members will not be able to shout down the millions of Canadians who want to defend the health care system. They have now called the principles of the Canada Health Act, the federal role, into account. They now say they want to privatize the health care system, and the Leader of the Opposition does not have the guts to stand up--