My name is Fred and I am a gay conservative living in Ottawa. This blog supports limited government, the right of the State of Israel to live in peace and security, and tries to expose the threat to us all from cultural relativism, post-modernism, and radical Islam. I am also the founder of the Free Thinking Film Society in Ottawa (

Tuesday, December 29, 2009

Gaza vs. The West Bank...

The Palestinians have two paths - one towards peace and reconciliation, and one towards misery...
The picture of what's happened to the Palestinian people on the ground - in Gaza on the one hand and in the West Bank on the other - is far more surprising, and powerfully educational.

A year on, unoccupied Gaza, where Hamas rules, is an isolated, angry place - a toxic stew of Islamic radicalism and political repression.

Women cannot walk the streets alone without getting hostile glances or worse. Children, if they go to school at all, are taught to hate Israel. Unemployment is rampant, upward of 40%. Terrorists, drawing from the ranks of the disaffected unemployed, find safe haven. After all, they run the joint.

Though missile launches fell sharply after Israel's intervention, they have since begun to creep up. More than 700 rockets and mortars were fired from Gaza in the first nine months of this year.

All this despite the fact that Israeli humanitarian aid increased ninefold from 2008 to 2009.

Contrast this with the West Bank, where Israel is technically an occupying force but the Palestinian Authority runs the show. The streets are quiet. The economy is growing. The city of Ramallah has film festivals, shopping centers and construction sites. Joblessness is in the teens. Observers say conditions are the best they've seen since 1948.

Perhaps most importantly, terrorists in the West Bank have precious few save havens.

Reported the Israeli newspaper Haaretz last week: "The successes of the Palestinian security forces there have aroused jaw-dropping admiration in the Israel Defense Forces, notably because of the Palestinians' capabilities in fighting Hamas and other terrorist groups. Indeed, the Palestinian forces have surprised even the Shin Bet security service and Military Intelligence by uncovering dormant Hamas cells ... whose existence was unknown even to the Israeli defense establishment."


Blogger Lucy said...

So the choices are either suffer war crimes against the population, attacks against UN buildings, hospitals, schools, homes and infrastructure etc like Gaza or have their land stolen under their noses and built upon by an occupying force while still suffering incursions like the West Bank.
Choices, choices.

9:32 AM  
Blogger Justin Hoffer said...

What occupying force? The West Bank belonged to Jordan, which abandoned it after the Six Day War. No one owns it.

10:13 AM  
Blogger Skinny Dipper said...

If the Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza suddenly agreed to peace with Israel, what would the Palestinians get? A few apartheid like bantustans in the West Bank and Israeli control of the Mediterranean Sea off Gaza.

10:20 AM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Skinny Dipper: What a lie? Did you see the offer that Olmert made to the Palestinians? Did you see the map of what a new palestinian state would look like? It was a real and substantial what Barak made and accepted at Camp David and at Taba.

What would the Palestinians get for making peace with israel?

1. Peace.
2. Security.
3. A country.
4. Aid from the Americans to resettle refugees.
5. part of jerusalem.
6. Dismantling of most settlements.

10:33 AM  
Anonymous ilona@israel said...

tnx you for the great article. i read news a lot and usually there is written that israel is agressor who press poor palestinian people and so on. but the information you gave here is totally different. the only thing i cant get-why do they complain so much?

10:51 AM  
Blogger Skinny Dipper said...

I'm sure Israel would be willing to give up all of the West Bank including all of the land west of the Apartheid Wall. For security reasons, the Palestinian police and security forces can operate west of the possibly dismantled Apartheid Wall in order to ensure the safety of Israel.

"Palestinian security forces there have aroused jaw-dropping admiration in the Israel Defense Forces."

10:52 AM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

There is no apartheid wall.

11:53 AM  
Anonymous Ibrahim said...

@GayandRight: Certainly there apartheid wall and you can't deny it my friend,
And guess what there is about a 600 Israely checkpoint in occupied West Bank.

12:24 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Justin says no occupying force and Fred says no aparthied wall and still goes on about Olmerts offer which would see the Palestinians swap an even smaller piece of land for the one they presently have which would still be under ooccupation and controlled by Israel. Why would anyone want to do that, it's the exact same as they presently have only smaller?
Sigh. I will never understand the logic of the (thankfully shrinking) blinkered pro-Israel supporters.

2:16 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Actually, Olmert's offer would have given the Palestinians the equivalent of 100% of the area of the west bank.

By the way, the Palestinians accepted such land swaps in Camp david and Taba.

Lucy, I bet you haven't even read the offer from Olmert, nor have you seen the map.

And, I wish you'd hold the Palestinians up to a better standard of behavior...but, you hold them in such contempt that you excuse behavior you'd find intolerable in others.

5:36 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Fred, i give Hamas just as hard a time as i give the Israeli Government. If you was as rabid pro-Palestine as you are rabid pro-Israel i would be berating you over your blinkered view of Hamas. Just that you are not, so i don't. Instead i bash you over the head for your pro-Israel stance instead.

I will hold my hands up to be a Socialist though.

5:48 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy, there you go again with the moral equivalency. Hamas is a genocidal organization; you cannot compare it to the Israeli government.

11:35 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

That particular horse you keep flogging died long ago Fred no matter how many times you try and deny it.

In almost every country outside of America, Israel is losing the PR battle.

7:40 PM  
Anonymous Lucy's Nemesis said...

Lucy, what exactly is Pro-Israel?

Do you mean to say that unless you are Anti-Israel then you are wrong? Unless you are against the existence of Israel you are a rightwing maniac?

Talk about blinkered.

10:38 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy, again you try to change the topic.

The plain fact of the matter is that you equate a genocidal organization (Hamas) with the israeli government. In effect, you are calling Israel genocidal, which shows how demented you truly are.

11:35 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

You have said that about 6 times now Fred and each time i have explained it in easier to understand terms for you but you still don't grasp it. Maybe the next steps is pictures and words of under one syllable.

How can i change the subject when it was you who bought it up again? You must have it on copy and paste ready for when you can't answer
me to direct the debate away from something you find uncomfortable.
Do you really want me to copy and paste my answer to this question everytime you bring it up or are you going to change that discredited record?

Nice of you to ask me what i mean, tell me what i mean and then go on to judge me by your answer all in one go Nemesis. I can see i'm going to up my game to get the better of you if you are going to invoke your psychic powers to read my mind like that.

11:24 AM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy, you never explain anything. Because you can't. There is no explanation for someone who is so delusional that they think a genocidal organization (Hamas) who wants all jews somehow just like the Israeli government.

11:52 AM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Fred, far from never explaining it, i have actually explained it 5 times now. Here there are again because they have obviously (and conveniently) slipped your mind everytime you have harked back despretely to my initial comment.

1. Israel does have a right to defend itself but do you extend that right to Israel's neighbours, notably the Palestinians?
The Likud manifesto states that it: 'flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river'.

2.The Hamas party doesn't want an Israel and the Likud party doesn't want a Palestine.
Both are out to destroy or stop the other one coming into being with the only difference the way they are going about it.

3. I was pointing out the similarity between their manifestos, namely that neither wants the other one living beside them.

4. Both the Likud and Hamas manifesto's state that they do not want to live beside each other. They therefore share similar goals with the only difference being Israel exists and Hamas want to be rid of it while Palestine doesn't exist and Hamas are against letting it whatever Netanyahu is saying at the UN.

5. I suggest you go read it yourself. It is quite eye opening.

If you can read it and then come back here and tell me that the ruling Israel Government is being fair then i will suggest you haven't read it or you are blinded by your support for Israel.

I don't know how much longer i can be charitable and say that you just missed all 5 of them at the time Fred. Maybe you should eat more fish or something to improve your memory.

Now the next time you say i haven't explained it (as you will because you will obviously be stuck for an answer many more times in the future) i can point here.

2:15 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy, Lucy, Lucy....take a valium. We've been through this many times. You've shown me nothing here.

I will repeat: Hamas is a genocidal organization. Do you not understand this. Their charter calls for the murder of ALL Jews...let alone Israelis. Murder. All of Us. Genocide.

The Likud charter calls for self-rule for Palestinians.

How on earth you can equate the two is beyond me. Actually it isn' exposes your malicious thinking for everybody to see (except for you).

2:52 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

You asked for an explanation which i have given to you again for a 5th time, and despite my mocking you, you still repeated that same mantra again. Come on Fred, up your game because where's the challenge?.

Seriously, try the Fish. Must be plenty of it in Canada seeing as your fisherman whacked most of the seals there.

11:22 AM  

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