David Horowitz's speech in Brooklyn...
posted by GayandRight @ 11:51 AM
GayandRight
My name is Fred and I am a gay conservative living in Ottawa. This blog supports limited government, the right of the State of Israel to live in peace and security, and tries to expose the threat to us all from cultural relativism, post-modernism, and radical Islam. I am also the founder of the Free Thinking Film Society in Ottawa (www.freethinkingfilms.com)
Saturday, March 12, 2011
GayandRight
My name is Fred and I am a gay conservative living in Ottawa. This blog supports limited government, the right of the State of Israel to live in peace and security, and tries to expose the threat to us all from cultural relativism, post-modernism, and radical Islam. I am also the founder of the Free Thinking Film Society in Ottawa (www.freethinkingfilms.com)
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10 Comments:
Do you recognize Palestine as a state?
The Palestinians are a people that will hopefully negotiate with Israel and get their state. It's up to them. Israel has tried repeatedly to negotiate in good faith..and has made many incredible offers, but the Palestinians keep missing opportunities for peace.
That's not what I asked.
If they went to the UN for state recognition, I take it that you feel they should be granted that?
It is irrelevant what the UN does. The only way for the Palestinians to get a state is to negotiate with the Israelis. There is no other way.
The only way to get a state is to negotiate with the Israelis? Wrong. They can go the UN and the world community like Israel did with UN General Assembly Resolution 273, and petition for statehood by becoming a member state of the GA. This is what they are currently putting into motion.
According to Wikileaks, the PA was willing to give up just about everything - including right of return - and they were still rebuked by Israel. (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/palestine-papers-middle-east-wikileaks). Apparently they have therefore given up on negotiations with Israel, and I don't find that the least bit surprising. I'm frankly surprised that you think Israel ever intended to give them anything. To add insult to injury, they were asked to put off pressing the issue until after the US 2012 election, which is ridiculous.
So, clearly it DOES matter what the UN does, and my question still stands: Do you recognize them as a member state of the General Assembly?
You reading of history is in error.
Israel did not get a state from the UN. They got it from beating five invading armies after the British left. The UN did nothing to help Israel get a state - in fact, even the Americans had an arms embargo against Israel.
You have also misunderstood the WikiLeak papers. It was Israel who made the concessions....and never accepted by the Palestinians. In fact, Olmert is still waiting for an answer to his peace offer.
The Palestinians could have had a state in 1948. They said no.
They could have had a state after the 1967 way. The Arabs went to khartoum and issues the 3 Nos - no negotiations, no peace, no recognition.
They could have had a state in 2000 at Camp David. They said no.
They could have had a state in early 2001 at Taba. They said no.
They could have had a state in 2010 and they said no again.
One last thing: The UN is a worthless organization.
I think you must have read the wrong wikileaks papers, or you're just a liar.
You clearly think that Israel is completely innocent in all of this, and that is unfortunate.
Have you even read the full text of the Resolution 273? Nowhere does it state that it was granted statehood because it won a war. What a ridiculous assertion; you don't 'win' statehood because of a war. It became a member because it petitioned, and because it offered to implement Resolutions 181 and 194. Have you looked into any of this? What are your sources? How about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_273.
Your whitewashing of this issue is contradicted by a great number of very reasonable people, who are capable of seeing that Israel is not treated well by Palestinians, but also, that Israel, by all indications, doesn't seem to want peace. They continue with settlements.
Just so I'm clear, what is YOUR interpretation of the wikileaks documents? Because it sure sounded like the PA offered just about everything. Are you telling me that the reporting on it is wrong? Why would the Palestinians be angry with the PA if this weren't the case?
One last thing: The UN is a worthless organization.
Sure it is, and your solution to international politics would be immensely superior. Right.
I know all about the General Assembly resolutions.
Israel was created by the fact that the Jews defeated the five invading armies after the British left Palestine.
The UN did nothing, except pass a resolution, to create Israel. The Jews did all the work and they had to fight to create their country.
Those are the facts.
As I have said before, the facts also are clear about Israel's commitment to peace. They have continually offered a two-state solution...and have been turned down everytime.
Yes, you have read the Wikileaks documents wrongly.
Why were the Palestinians angry? Because they felt (wrongly it turned out) that the Palestinian street was not ready for compromise on a variety of issues.
My solution is simple. Only the Israelis and the Palestinians can negotiate a solution. There is no other solution...and when the Palestinians are ready for serious negotiations, they will find a willing partner in Israel.
Wow. You truly must be an idiot if you think that there is no nuance in this situation. Incredible.
Anyway, the Palestinians have apparently decided to become a member state of the UN - as Israel did - because they feel that negotiations with Israel will never get them statehood.
I'm sorry that 'your solution' only allows for negotiation with Israel; you don't represent Israel, and - despite your obvious delusions of grandeur - you don't represent the world community.
I never claimed to represent Israel.
And, I never claimed to represent the world community,as you put it.
Interestingly, you now resort to insults (calling me an idiot).
Nice!
The facts are plain. The UN will not get the palestinians a state.
Only negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians will deliver a state. There is no substitution for negotiation.
If you want to further comment, then leave out the insults, or I won't publish the comment.
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