GayandRight

My name is Fred and I am a gay conservative living in Ottawa. This blog supports limited government, the right of the State of Israel to live in peace and security, and tries to expose the threat to us all from cultural relativism, post-modernism, and radical Islam. I am also the founder of the Free Thinking Film Society in Ottawa (www.freethinkingfilms.com)

Saturday, October 24, 2009

Anti-semitism on the rise in France...

Well, these numbers are a surprise, no?
Violent acts or threats against French Jews in the first half of this year outnumbered all similar incidents in 2008, a Jewish community group said Saturday, pointing to a wave of anti-Semitism following Israel's attack on Gaza.

In the period from January to June, 631 anti-Semitic incidents were recorded, the Paris-based Protection Service for the Jewish Community (SCPJ) said, compared to 474 for the whole of 2008.

Some 360 of those took place in January -- the month when Israel launched its military offensive on the Gaza Strip.

From this year's numbers, 113 were violent attacks and 518 were threats of violence.

The data was based on records from the French interior ministry and the SCPJ's own figures.

The SCPJ said anger over Israel's offensive on Gaza was one of the main reasons for the rise in attacks on or threats of violence against Jews.

"The pro-Palestinian movement of January 2009 paved the way for numerous anti-Semitic attacks," the group said in a statement.

"This trend continued over the following months," the SPCJ said.

Jacques Attali, a leading French Jewish intellectual and former adviser to the late French president Francois Mitterrand, sparked controversy earlier this week when he told an Israeli newspaper there "was no problem of anti-Semitism in France."

Richard Prasquier, the head of the CRIF, an umbrella group of secular Jewish organisations, responded to Attali's comments by saying "there is a climate of hatred against Jews (in France) that manifests itself through insults and often physical attacks."

19 Comments:

Blogger Lucy said...

Only an idiot would attack a Jew for something Israel is doing, but then only an idiot would take an attack on Israel as an attack on Jews. It goes both ways. Israel and its supporters cannot start bleating that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic because that is exactly the same mind-set of the morons who attack Jews for Israels actions.

5:49 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

And, Lucy, you're the person who believe that Likud is the equivalent of Hamas.

You always duck the question - how on earth can you equate a genocidal organization like Hamas with a party like Likud. who wants self-rule for the Palestinians??

7:06 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Yet again Fred, you somehow manage to ignore that i have answered it at least 3 times already.
I even gave you the link to the Likud manifesto page where the similarity is there right in front of you.
I don't know if you use it as a fall back when you can't answer me or if you possibly just didn't understand what i said those 3 times. I don't believe you are that stupid so i'm going for the first option and say you have no comeback yet again so you cling to my comment about Hamas and Likud having similar goals like a life belt.
Now, don't duck my comment, are the people who attack Jews for Israels actions as idiotic as the people who equate criticism of Israel as anti-semitic.

8:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucy, "only an idiot would take an attack on Israel as an attack on Jews. It goes both ways."

Lucy, "are the people who attack Jews for Israels actions as idiotic as the people who equate criticism of Israel as anti-semitic."

You are playing the J card - that Jews use "anti-Semitism" as a defence against attacks on Israel.

Only the warped mindset of a Jew hater can claim that Jews do that.

9:24 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Well said!

Lucy, you can give me the link to the Likud page a thousand times....you still duck the question:

How on earth can you equate a genocidal organization like Hamas - one that wants to kill all Jews - with the Likud, a political party that wants self-rule for the Palestinians?

11:42 PM  
Anonymous Philanthropist said...

Canada should accept Jews from France as refugees. Jews in France are nuts for staying there.

5:12 AM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Anon- How can i be playing the J card when the whole post is about anti-semitism in France being on the rise because of Israels actions?
Maybe you should have a word with Fred to turn off comments for the posts that would mean us having to mention the J or I words when replying in future.

You might want to have a look at the British Independent Jewish Voices site where they declare:

The battle against anti-Semitism is vital and is undermined whenever opposition to Israeli government policies is automatically branded as anti-Semitic.

Strange how my point is the same as the most high profile British
Jewish Organisation. Maybe they have come to the same conclusion that only an idiot takes an attck on Israel as an attack on Jews. Wonder where that puts you Anon?

Still unable to answer me i see Fred. Should i take it then that you can't or even that you agree with me but don't want to lose face on your own blog? Alternatively you can keep harking back to something i have answered fully many times to hide your weak argument.

12:09 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

The last people I want to check with are any of the Independent Jewish Voices Groups.

Look, Lucy, I understand you don't want to answer the question - you've never answered it - and you can't answer.

Anybody who thinks the genocidal organization Hamas is similar ot Likud just is far too removed from reality for my tastes.

You say you have answered the question 3 times - I'd like to see the question answered just one time.

As for your original question, I thought somebody else had answered you. The plain fact of the matter is criticism of Israel might be anti-semitic. It all depends on context and what is being saying. You might want to consult Elie Wiesel and some of his thoughts about criticism of Israel.

Fred

2:54 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Fred, far from never answering it, i have actually answered it 4 times.

1. Israel does have a right to defend itself but do you extend that right to Israel's neighbours, notably the Palestinians?
The Likud manifesto states that it: 'flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river'.
The Hamas party doesn't want an Israel and the Likud party doesn't want a Palestine.
Both are out to destroy or stop the other one coming into being with the only difference the way they are going about it.

2. I was pointing out the similarity between their manifestos, namely that neither wants the other one living beside them.

3. Both the Likud and Hamas manifesto's state that they do not want to live beside each other. They therefore share similar goals with the only difference being Israel exists and Hamas want to be rid of it while Palestine doesn't exist and Hamas are against letting it whatever Netanyahu is saying at the UN.

4. I suggest you go read it yourself. It is quite eye opening.

http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm

If you can read it and then come back here and tell me that the ruling Israel Government is being fair then i will suggest you haven't read it or you are blinded by your support for Israel.

Let's be charitable and say that you just missed all 4 of them at the time Fred. I'm nice like that.

7:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucy, "How can i be playing the J card when the whole post is about anti-semitism in France being on the rise because of Israels actions?

only an idiot takes an attck on Israel as an attack on Jews. Wonder where that puts you Anon?"

You miss the point entirely.

People are attacking Jews because of what Israel does.

No individual Jew or Jews as a whole have any responsibility to Israel or its adventures, and attacking Jews like you did, now I see you have edited your post to change what you said.

You now make more sense, but changing your comment and then attacking me for something I responded to seems rather 'dirty tricks'.

The left never fail to amaze.

9:45 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy - gee, I am speechless. Hamas is a genocidal organization - they don't just want Israel to NOT exist (which is genocide), they want to kill ALL Jews!!!!

How you see this equivalent to the Likud (which stands for the self-rule of Palestinians) is beyond me.

11:39 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Anon - Maybe you didn't see the very first sentence where i said 'Only an idiot would attack a Jew for something Israel is doing'. My point was it goes both ways.

Not sure what post or bit of it i changed though to suddenly clarify it to you.

Fred - I don't think it is beyond you, i think you just are not paying attention to what i say because its easier than agreeing with me.

One more time then, the similarities are in each manifesto. The difference, which is where you seem to be coming unstuck, is how they are going about achieving it.

Maybe i am misreading the part that says that it 'flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river' so maybe you can explain that part to me because to my mind, that says it doesn't want a Palestine state beside it.

12:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My niece was a foreign exchange student in France. My niece as very curly hair. For a couple weeks she noticed that people gave her nasty looks. She thought it was because she was an American. When she told her house mother about it the house mother just said, "You have Jewish hair." And I thought the French just hated Americans. Gosh, it's nice to know I can go to France and be treated nice with my straight hair. No anti-antisemitism in France? Only a Dhimmi would say something like that.

Love your Blog, BTW

1:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, I forgot, my niece's experience was BEFORE Israel took action against HAMAS. The only differance is that now they can be open about it.

1:16 PM  
Blogger GayandRight said...

Lucy, saying you dont' want a palestinian state next to you is not the same thing as saying you want all Jews murdered.

The likud manifesto calls for palestinian self-rule...and of course, netanyahu then gave a speech outlining the steps to statehood.

Yet, you think that this is equivalent - which says more about you than me.

11:22 PM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Anon - That's just the French, they look at anyone who isn't French in a strange way.

Fred - It says you won't believe anything that is outside of your narrow, blinkered view.

Once again i shall say it because you never know, it might finally sink in one day. Not hopeful though.

The similarity is that both their manifesto's state that neither want the other next to them. If you take that as me saying Likud and Hamas are the same to avoid answering the awkward questions i posed (which you have done ever since i asked them) then just keep going. It will just make me smile because it shows you cannot answer them otherwise you would and not just default to putting your own bizarre words in my mouth.

1:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lucy, I apologize, I was heartily stoned and you're quite correct, I misread when replying and mistakenly thought you had edited your post!

The point I was making was that claiming that Jews use antisemitism as a defence against attacks on Israel can in itself be racism: one's ethnicity does not confer a particular belief or thought upon oneself. So to automatically defer to the standpoint that any Jew who believes a critique of Israel is antisemitic in nature, is of itself antisemitic.

An attempt to shut down criticism of Israel by playing the anti semitism card is chutzpah.

But indeed much criticism of Israel is founded in anti semitism.

Thanks for your time and for being polite!

3:21 AM  
Blogger Lucy said...

Anon - No need to apologise although your admission that you was heartily stoned at the time of answering does qualify as one of my favourite replies ever.

Of course it would be naive of me to claim that there are not some people who attack Israel but actually mean Jew, there are plenty of them around. My initial comment at the top shows what i think of them.

It would also be equally naive for anyone to claim that some people do not believe that criticising Israel is anti-semitic. Proof is right here where Fred and a few others have labelled me a jew hating hippy merely because i crticised the people running Israel although they seemed to overlook the parts where i criticised Hamas.

Again in the initial comment, i condemned those on both sides who do it, i think i called them morons, but if Fred and the others want to only see the sentences where i point the finger at Israel, then it's his blog and he can do what he wants here, however blinkered it seems to make him look. As long as it stays civil and doesn't just become a slanging match, i can shrug it off.

4:48 PM  
Blogger Iron Chef Kosher! said...

The real problem is in thinking that anyone has a right to attack Israel for defending itself, much less Jews in general. This is what every one has missed. It doesn't take an idiot to see why Israel is attacked for doing less than any other country would do in the same circumstances.

Oh, & the so-called Palestinians would need to "defend themselves" if they'd stop the terrorism. You;d think that would be a no-brainer, but, obviously not!

6:45 PM  

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